Ä Area: UFO ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Msg#: 14209 Date: 05-25-96 05:35
From: Jan De Veen Read: Yes Replied: No
To: All Mark:
Subj: Ex MOD UFO Desk Officer (
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi All,
Earlier tonight (well, yesterday, really) I happened to be zapping accross
BBC 2, just when their daily program 'Newsnight' was coming on, and I left it
on long enough to hear they were going to have a UFO-related item to close off
the program.
Now for those of you on the other side of the pond, who've never seen
'Newsnight', let me say that it's a well-respected news feature program
covering three issues of the day's newsitems, usually with some studio guests
during one of the items.
As it happened last night's "other" 2 features were: Prime Minister John
Major's ratings boost from his recent stance against Europe on it's renewal of
the ban on British beef, and a background story on the upcoming elections in
Israel.
Because I immediately reached for a tape, I've managed to transcribe the whole
UFO-segment, which lasted a total of 8 minutes and 25 seconds ;) and will thus
include it below. It's an interview with Nick Pope, whom the observant among
you may recall from a post forwarded to this area by Ed Stewart, dated May 17,
with the subject "Nick Pope's UFO's". Pope, sometimes referred to as "the Real
Fox Mulder" was the British MOD's UFO Desk Officer from 1991-1994, and will
release a book about his experiences in that position sometime next month,
which of course, is the reason for his being on the program... ;-)
==============================================================================
BBC 2, 'Newsnight', Friday, May 24, 1996, 22.30-23.15, British Time
==============================================================================
[David Vine]
Now, for the first time, a Ministry of Defence insider is about to talk
publicly about the secret world of UFO sightings. Nick Pope spent four years
as the MOD's UFO watcher. His book about his experiences, "Open Skies,
Closed Minds," is published next month, and I'll be speaking to Nick Pope
in his first television interview in just a moment. But first we've asked an
actor to read some excerpts from his book:
"Until 1991 I was generally sceptical about the paranormal. I didn't
believe in UFO's, and anyway, paranormal experiences only happened to
weirdoes, didn't they? My conversion was a slow one, but no less
extraordinary for that. It is that some UFO sightings are probably
extra-terrestrial in origin. It is not that I have gone mad. Not that
I've made a blind leap of faith, but the conclusion I have drawn is the
only one borne out by the evidence.
What did happen at Rendlesham Forest in Suffolk? There have been some
quite extraordinary attempts to explain away the events. In 1980 two
security patrolmen on their tour of Woodbridge Airbase saw bright lights in
the forest. The object was no aircraft. They encountered a metallic
triangular craft unlike anything they had ever seen before. I believe the
Ministry of Defence squandered a major opportunity by not investigating the
incident in detail at the time. The trail has now gone cold."
[Actor turns the page]
"UFOcal is the name given to a place where more UFO events than chance
should allow seem to occur. Bonnybridge in Scotland has a good claim to
this title. Some 8,000 reports were made by local inhabitants. It is a
classic example of the way the reporting system fails that only two or
three of these _ever_ reached my desk."
The scene now switches to an interview with an elderly woman, standing
outside, in front of her house. The caption below reads: "Margaret Ross,
UFO Witness, Bonnybridge"
Ross:
"My husband and I were going to bed one Saturday evening, and I
happened to look out of the window. It was the bedroom window, which is
this one, up here (she points). And er... I saw this really bright light
in the sky, and I thought... So I decided to film this, so I picked up my
cine-camera (she holds up a video camera), and er... started filming.
And what I filmed... it was really scary!"
[We are shown a fragment of what she filmed: a circularly shaped purple light,
very out of focus, with several yellow stripes running diagonally from left
to right across it]
"It was so much so, that I hid behind my curtain... And I thought, well...
I can see _them_ up there... They can see _me_..."
Now the actor continues reading from Pope's book:
"What sort of people _do_ submit UFO reports? Most of them, and this is
what made their story so convincing to me, came tentatively, embarrassed,
and sorry for taking up my time."
We again switch to an interview with an eyewitness; this time a middleaged
man, sitting on a couch in his livingroom. The caption below reads: "James
Millen, UFO Witness, Dorset"
Millen:
"My wife and I were camping in Dorset, and in the night I got up to go to
the toilet. It was 5 to 3 [2.55 am], and I went back to the tent, and I
noticed some lights in the sky. I called my wife out to have a look. And
the next moment we were back in the tent. And all I can recall is being
in a white, circular room with some tall and short figures dressed in white.
I checked my watch again... It was 25 to 6 [5.35 a.m.] I have no
explanation what happened that 2 hours, 35 minutes... We wrote to the
Ministry of Defence, and Nick Pope replied, asking for further
information."
The book continues:
"I became the butt of MOD humour, when I was the UFO Desk Officer,
but could it be that somewhere within the cabinet's bowels' main building
there lurked more X-files? If so, then where is this material? Who has
it, and why are they keeping in under wraps? Why was it kept from _me_ ,
when it could have been a crucial piece of the puzzle?"
[The actor closes Pope's book]
Now the actual interview by Newsnight presenter David Vine with Pope starts:
===========================================================================
[Vine]
Nick Pope, what do you believe _now_ that you didn't believe 5 years ago?
[Caption below Pope reads: "Nick Pope, UFO Desk Officer, Ministry of Defence,
1991-1994"]
[Pope]
Well, I came into the job as a sceptic, but I was convinced by the
sheer weight of evidence. The sightings, the radar evidence... all that
sort of thing... that _some_ of these things that we see in the sky and
call UFO's are extraterrestrial in origin.
[Vine]
Extraterrestrial what? Craft? With people in them?
[Pope]
Well, craft of some sort, certainly. That's not to say they _all_ are...
Of course most of them have conventional explanations, but after
rigourous investigation we find that 5 or 10 percent absolutely defy _any_
conventional explanation, and these ones, yes... It does look as if they
may be some sort of craft from elsewhere...
[Vine]
Well, what do you think is going on? What do you think these 'people' and
these craft are doing?
[Pope]
That's the difficult question. It's very difficult to say because although
the evidence is convincing, it's often contradictory. Some people say that
it bears the hallmarks of some sort of reconnaissance exercise. Certainly
these sightings have been going on for many many years... er...
Lots of reliable witnesses; many military personnel sighting them, but yet
no open outright contact. So that does tend to suggest that they are
trying to keep themselves hidden.
[Vine]
What was it about your own role in the Ministry of Defence that made you
more certain that this was going on? Was there anything there that...
that you found out that gave rise to your conviction that these craft and
these extraterrestrial people existed?
[Pope]
Well, yes... Of course, working in the Ministry of Defence, I had access
to all sorts of inside data, and when I was conducting my investigations I
would liaise with Royal Airforce officers... I could impound radar tapes,
I could go and speak to witnesses... I could speak to the Royal Observatory
at Greenwich... I could make all sorts of checks to try and get to the
bottom of sightings. Checks which really civilian UFO researchers were not
able to make...
[Vine]
But... If you believed these... Obvious reports that were coming out
from the people you talked to, why did nobody else come out and say the
same thing? Why are you the only Defence officer that's come out saying
this?
[Pope]
Well... I think it's all to do with people's personal prejudices. You've
only got to _mention_ the phrase UFO, and a lot of people just switch off.
They think this is not an issue that they wish to be associated with. But
certainly over the years the evidence is undeniable. I suspect there are
more people...
[Vine]
Wel _is_ it? You see, Mr. Pope... because, I mean.. The Ministry of
Defence gave us a statement tonight saying.. er... "As far as we know no
one has _ever_ established any defence signifficance in any UFO
sighting"... which... of course is a particular point the Ministry of
Defence _would_ make, but.. "Nor has anyone," they say, "provided evidence
to make us believe that any alien craft has ever penetrated British
airspace."
[Pope]
Well I think it's _absolutely_ clear that structured craft of unknown
origin _have_ and _continue_ to penetrate the U.K. air defence region.
This has happened on a number of occasions. We've had radar evidence...
On some occasions we've had aircraft scrambled... And it seems to me that,
er... alltough we necessarily.... we can't absolutely say what these
things are... But given that they _are_ penetrating our air defenses, we
_have_ to say that there's a potential threat, until we can say that...
er... there is _no_ threat from...
[Vine]
But... But nobody else believes this inside the Ministry except you,
according to the Ministry...
[Pope]
Well... that's a difficult one, I...
[Vine]
Give.. Give us an example. Take one example of some _event_ which, with
your inside knowledge, you can persuade us, really was an unidentified
flying object... something from outerspace...
[Pope]
In March of 1993 we had a case where numerous RAF personnel and police
officers reported a craft over Britain. It was seen by the guard patrol af
RAF Shawbury... er.. sorry, RAF Cosford... Then it was seen by the
Meteorological Officer at RAF Shawbury. It was firing a beam of light down
at the countryside... It was emitting a low hum. This was _not_ some
aircraft light seen from an unusual angle. This was a _craft_! It had got
through our air defenses, nad that _must_ be a matter of Defence
signifficance!
[Vine]
What... You go much further in your book, of course, than say you believe
that these craft exist... You say "I believe there's a war going on. A
one-sided war so secret we aren't even aware it's happening. If any of
these incidents can be attributed to an alien presence, then that presence
is carrying out crimes against humanity." What do you mean by that?
[Pope]
Well... Certainly over the years there have been a number of cases of
pilots who have been called upon to intercept UFO's... er... One of those
was killed. That was in America in the late 40's. There was a pilot who
disappeared after an encounter with a UFO that was, er... recorded on Air
Traffic Control tapes. He closed on the craft. He said "this craft is
right on top of me, and it's ot an aircraft." Then the plane crashed.
[Vine, running out of time, trying to close off]
And... and.. very briefly... Do you believe there's some kind of... I mean
you elude in many parts of your book to some cover-up going on? Is the
Ministry of Defence hiding information?
[Pope]
Not in Britain... I think the problem is the opposite. We know too
little!
[Vine]
Thank you very much indeed.. er... Mr. Pope
Well now.. A quick look at tomorrow's news headlines.. (etc)
===============================================================================
Byeee,
Jan de Veen
-!- Terminate 3.00/Pro
! Origin: I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay... :-) (2:283/726.42)